Our hosts tackle the classic Trek movies (Star Trek The Motion Picture through Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country). Join us to talk Saavik, Carol Marcus, Gillian Taylor, three-breasted cat women, fan dances, shapeshifters and more!
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Hosts: Jarrah, Andi, Grace and Sue
Download Transcript: PDF or Word
Theme: Music from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and audio from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.
Notes and References:
- Excerpts from SF author A.C. Crispin’s 1984 review of Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
- 1987 Starlog interview with Catherine Hicks on playing Gillian Taylor in Star Trek IV.
- 1989 Starlog interview with Spice Williams on training to play Vixis in Star Trek V.
- Nichelle Nichols on the Star Trek V fan dance.
- 1992 Starlog interview with Kim Cattrall on playing Valeris.
Hey I just listened to this episode today, and loved it! I wanted to thank you for the shout-out to how awesome whale researchers are – that made my day!
Stacy Braslau-Schneck, MA
Kewalo Basin Marine Mammal Lab
Since I have just learned of your podcast I am super late in responding to these episodes but oh well. You all have mentioned previously that in the novels they are able to explore themes, ideas, and situations that they were unable to explore in the tv shows. Which is true! I have only been reading the DS9 books but I did want to take a moment to mention there is a situation where Odo disguises himself as a Trelian girl named Wex for about a book and a half, possibly longer (I can’t remember) before he reveals himself as Odo to both the characters and the reader! The books Odo as Wex appears in are Rising Son and Unity.
This time I want to focus my comment on one particular thing: The short part about the term feminist.
Because at the moment, I find myself in a position where I am not feeling good about using that term anymore. It has been used in so many wrong ways, especially “against” people as almost an insult, that I find it hard to describe it in any appropiate way.
I’m a straight male. I, personally, haven’t had any major doubt regarding my genderidentity. So that’s my point of view. If I had to describe myself, I don’t think that “feminist” would be one of the first words I would use. And I am not sure if I should.
I try to live my life in a way, that leads in a direction, that I would love to see humanity as a whole go to: Personally, I would love to see all those conflicts of gender, feminism, sex and whatnot to cease to exist simply to the fact that they are not relevant anymore.
That may sound wrong, so I’ll try to explain what I mean:
When I meet a person, I want to meet this person as – a trekkie. A fellow student. A stranger. I don’t want to meet a women. A man. Or anything in between. I do not want to meet people with a focus on a common interest, need or anything. I just don’t see why their sex and/or gender should be so important to me, that I have any feelings towards them regarding that very personal aspect of their identity.
Of course I am willing to recognize their identy in such extend that I am able to treat them properly and with appropiate manner. It is part of everyones identity and for some people it is way more important than to me. Personally, I don’t see why anybody has to know how I identify regarding my gender. For me that is probably easy, because I am in a simple position. Of course for somebody in transition, or somebody who isn’t sure about that yet, that is more important and I of course think that this should be adressed and be respected.
What bothers me is that habit of telling other people things like “oh, I am totally tolerant, my best friend is gay.”
Why is that important? Why do you have to define this person by their sexual orientation or gender identity or anything regarding this?
People should be able to express themselves however they want and in any manner they want.
I just wish, that some day in the future, people won’t have the need anylonger, to make gender identity, their sexuality or anything in that regard, the most important thing about their personality. If I meet somebody, I want to be able to treat them right, how they want to be treated. If that requires me to know their gender idenity, fine. But other than that, I am simply more interested in other things you do, other things you identify with. There is so much more in life than just that.
Now, to bring that all the way back to the beginning: Do I consider myself a feminist?
Honestly, I don’t know. If it is nescessary to show that I support the equality and rights of women as well as men, I guess I do. But for me, that is not the point. I want to work towards the goal, that some day we all can live together without any need for feminists.
The goals of reasonable feminists, the things that you for example adress in your podcasts, these are things that shouldn’t be needed to be pointed out. It shouldn’t need a particular feminist podcast to point out that a woman with three boobs that is only introduced as a poledancer to get murdered 5 minutes later is a stupid idea. That should be natural, something everybody knows and accepts.
And maybe, that is what I am trying to say. I don’t want to have to call myself a feminist to convince people that I am not considering myself part of the “stronger gender” or bullshit like that.
Once again, I wanted to write that all down as a thought about this episode. I don’t want to imply that anything is wrong with using the term feminist, especially not for anybody involved with this podcast. I respect that.
The only problem I had: At the moment, with all the shit going down all over the internet, I don’t rely on a term like “feminist” for anything. If I want to know how these podcasts adress women or men or anybody, I listen to those podcasts. And then I decide wether I agree with that or not. Sadly, the term “feminist” alone is in this times simply no longer for me connected to a valid meaning, that tells me anything about you. That is no feminists fault. It has to do with how people on the internet and media adress each other and how they use it. That is sad, that has to change and you are doing an amazing job in that regard.
So, I’ll take the chance and say a big THANK YOU to all of you. Not “Thank you for looking at women in trek”. Not “thank you for being a feminist”. Not “thank you for pointing out both, the good and the bad stuff happening in those movies.”
Just THANK YOU for all the time and effort you all put into this work and how you take your time to keep in touch with the community.
The thing about Odo’s gender choice is interesting; the way the changelings function is a little unclear to me – they do seem to be distinct entities, and the ‘female’ changeling is always referred to as such (the convenience of names seems to be beyond them), which *kind of* implies that gender isn’t a choice…but it’s all a bit sketchy.
Along similar lines, there’s no particular reason why Voyager’s holographic Doctor should have been purely heterosexual, but all his romances, putative or actual, involve women. I suppose there’s a case to be made that he was programmed with the preferences of his creator, BUT the problem there is that he isn’t supposed to function in that way at all…so, socialised heterosexuality? Which doesn’t say much for diversity and choice…
Anyway, another great episode. You’ve tempted me to check out the films for the first time in easily twenty years…